[Harp-L] Re: tongue blocking/ tone

Above a certain level tone comes from your entire vocal apparatus more than the harmonica; from stomach, diaphram, chest, larynx, mouth, nasal cavities and head. Tongue blocking has only a minor effect in this entire system. To begin with it is good to activate this system by trying to play loud and forcefully at all times but without blowing harder. It is like speaking loudly but not shouting. Richard
Richard Hammersley
Grantshouse
Scottish Borders

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Subject: Harp-L Digest, Vol 85, Issue 36

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Tongue blocking and tone (michael rubin)
   2. Re: Re: SPAH convention -- Asia popularity (Philharpn@xxxxxxx)
   3. Re: Tongue blocking and tone (Deb Wind)
   4. RE: Song examples in blues where the Side to Side Tongue
      warble is being put to good use (Peter & Connie Ruth)
   5. RE: Re: Tongue blocking and tone (Chris Michalek)
   6. Re: Song examples in blues where the Side to Side Tongue,
      warble is being put to good use ??? (Michelle LeFree)
   7. Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Tongue blocking and tone  (EGS1217@xxxxxxx)
   8. Re: Tongue blocking and tone (Deb Wind)
   9. Re: Lee Oskar Reed Plates (Winslow Yerxa)
  10. Re: Tongue blocking and tone (Philharpn@xxxxxxx)
  11. Re: Re: SPAH convention (joe leone)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 11:25:56 -0500
From: michael rubin <michaelrubinharmonica@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Tongue blocking and tone
To: Jerry Deall <jdeall@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTiku8=S9YOOts5V-EERo9hYBO2aa5=XS7FqAHaTO@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Phil, what is a misnomer about it?  The tongue blocks the holes you do
not want to play.
Michael Rubin
Michaelrubinharmonica.com

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Jerry Deall <jdeall@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> In my case I'm sure it's the hollow head.........
>
> Thanks Jerry,
> http://www.thebluesambassadors.com/
> http://www.myspace.com/bluesambasador
> http://www.facebook.com/bluesambassadors#!/pages/The-Blues-Ambassadors/189384179665?ref=ts
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Philharpn@xxxxxxx
> To: jdekker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2010 10:07:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Tongue blocking and tone
>
> Tone is one of those elusive qualities like comb materials. What produces
> the best tone? U-block, tongue block or pucker embouchure?
>
> As to the degrees of difficulty, I don't know that anyone has ever done a
> comparative test to determine whether tongue blocking or lip pursing is more
> difficult to master. Partly this is due to the fact that tongue block is a
> misnomer.
>
> With tongue block the key ingredient is getting the tongue out of the way,
> off to the side, to allow a small hole in the left or right corner of the
> mouth. It is not a precise movement. It's the side of the tongue that blocks
> the comb. Concentrating on getting that little hole in the corner of the
> mouth is the important thing. The tongue is just casually resting on the comb.
>
> But keep in mind, tongue blocking was the original received way to play the
> Richter tuned harmonica and for many years -- 50, 75, 100? -- most
> harmonicas contained a small piece of paper explaining how to execute tongue
> blocking.
>
> That piece of paper is still available in the Hohner BluesBand harmonica**
> -- the one that comes in a cardboard box and is sold at Cracker Barrel for
> about $5.95 next to the cash register.
>
> It might be comforting to know that over the years only a few million
> people learned to tongue block the harmonica.
>
> **Other brands also include embouchure directions along with their
> harmonicas today.
>
> Hope this helps.
> Phil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/7/10 6:23:41 PM, jdekker@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
>
>
>> As a beginner, I pucker for everything, and find tongue blocking to be
>> very difficult. Is it true that the great Chicago blues tone can only come
>> from tongue blocking? I think I read that Little Walter and others tongue
>> blocked most of the time. Is anyone getting "that" tone while puckering?
>>
>


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 12:34:25 EDT
From: Philharpn@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Re: SPAH convention -- Asia popularity
To: tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1b703.66edd804.39b91511@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

There has to be something else going on here to explain why all these Asian 
kids and young people flock to the harmonica.   

The Asia phenomenon is interesting. What is the appeal of the harmonica in 
Asia? Is it simply a cultural difference? Whether it's economics: they can't 
afford guitars? They can't afford ipods, ipads, laptop computers, cell 
phones or other distractions? Good quality harmonicas are readily available? 
Good quality instructors are readily available? Playing music is considered a 
legitimate art form not an idle distraction and waste of time? The harmonica 
is regarded as a legitimate instrument, not a toy? The instrument blends 
itself well with traditional Chinese music? There is a strong tradition of 
harmonica in Chinese music? 

Whatever it is, those young people flock to the harmonica festival because 
they want to be there. And until we get a handle on what it is that drives 
them to attend, we're not going to make any reasonalble comparisons to SPAH.

I'm sure there are more questions, but until they are asked we're not going 
to have a clue as to what is going on here.

Eschew obfuscations.
Phil

 





In a message dated 9/8/10 1:49:06 AM, tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes:
> smo-joe said
> 
> "As I told Richard off list, someone? has to be coming up
> with the money to send these youngsters. Maybe sponsors?"
> 
> For the Asia Pacific Harmonica Festival there is no sponsorship as far
> as I'm aware, not even for the elite players. All the contestants pay
> their own way to get there, they generally stay in cheap accommodation.
> The festival organizers work really hard to get government support,
> however this is for the use of venues etc. Again I'm not sure of the
> details, just glad that I don't have to organize any of it. No-one seems
> to be in it for the money, they just love the harmonica and the chance
> to win the competitions.
> 
> The responsibility for Asia Pacific Harmonica festival organization
> passes between countries, the next one will be in Malaysia in 2012. I
> know the Malaysian people, they'll do a great job.
> 
> Tony Eyers
> Australia
> www.HarmonicaAcademy.com
> ...everyone plays
> 
> 


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 11:39:27 -0500
From: Deb Wind <debseifriedwind@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Tongue blocking and tone
To: Philharpn@xxxxxxx
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTinvNJW+daTp_oAJAdu25rUq+nQg8j1rP2baj=fM@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I was under the impression that the ability to U-block is a genetic factor.
Some people possess the gene to be able to curl the tongue (aka U-block),
while others lack the gene, and thus, cannot U-block no matter how hard they
try.  Kind of like having "unattached" vs. "attached" earlobes, or having a
Widow's Peak or not having a Widow's peak... ya either have it or you
don't....



> With tongue block the key ingredient is getting the tongue out of the way,
> off to the side, to allow a small hole in the left or right corner of the
> mouth. It is not a precise movement. It's the side of the tongue that
> blocks
> the comb. Concentrating on getting that little hole in the corner of the
> mouth is the important thing. The tongue is just casually resting on the
> comb.
>

So the tongue IS ON the comb!?  Is it the tip or the flat of the tongue? Or
both??  I learned to play a couple years ago using the pucker method, and I
can play single notes well.  However, I want to be able to progress, to be
able to play chords, and split intervals, and so much more, but I can't do
that with the pucker method (*I* can't, that's not to say someone of far
more skill level CAN...) So I am trying to learn to TB. It just seems so...
"un-natural"....

So, is the tip of the tongue anchored behind the lower incisors and the flat
of the tongue is actually ON the comb? Or is the tip *and* flat of the
tongue ON the comb? (albeit moved over to the side)

... read an article about a gentleman several weeks ago that ended with the
statement that it took the gentleman EIGHT YEARS to learn a single piece of
music... EIGHT YEARS, MAN!!
I shall not become frustrated after only a few weeks!
Ishallnotbecomefrustrated, ishallnotbecomefrustrated...

Thanks for the advise on TBing. It really is appreciated by this newby
harpist.

Deb
EarthDogHarpin


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 13:22:11 -0400
From: Peter & Connie Ruth <conruth@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] RE: Song examples in blues where the Side to Side
	Tongue	warble is being put to good use
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1C957972-EA2D-445F-B31F-8CB926D14527@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=US-ASCII;	format=flowed;	delsp=yes

Frank Franze asked:
> What blues tunes are there, where the artist is utilizing the Side  
> to Side Tongue "switch" Warble somewhere in the song  > where the  
> notes on either side of the tongue are being activated to create the  
> warble effect?

Check out my version of Highway 61 on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/petermadcatruth#p/u/10/InYGolboXBk

In this song I used tongue warbles four times:
0:15 - 0:19
2:00 - 2:03
3:04 - 3:07
4:16 - 4:18

Peter Madcat Ruth
Musician - Grammy Award Winner
madcat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.madcatmusic.net
www.youtube.com/user/petermadcatruth





------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 10:52:43 -0700
From: Chris Michalek <groovygypsy@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [Harp-L] Re: Tongue blocking and tone
To: Harp L Harp L <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTi=nSetcCFdwCNE32-UALxenAtsbxNDTNcE2bEdV@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

there is no difference in tone between TB and Pucker.  A good player will
learn to do both as both have advantages and disadvantages.

http://www.harmonicapros.com/music-tools/tb-v-pucker.mp3


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 12:04:08 -0600
From: Michelle LeFree <mlefree@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Song examples in blues where the Side to Side
	Tongue,	warble is being put to good use ???
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4C87D018.2080606@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

  Frank Franze asked:
> What blues tunes are there, where the artist is utilizing the Side to Side Tongue "switch" Warble somewhere in the song where the notes on either side of the tongue are being activated to create the warble effect?

Frank, in my opinion, Gwen Foster was the original master of the 
tongue-split warble and other amazing effects:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgBZHlgAaBc

There are a few cuts of Gwen's playing on Yazoo Records' "Harmonica 
Blues" and "Harmonica Masters," along with those by many other classic 
pre-war harmonica masters:

http://yazoorecords.com/1053.htm

http://yazoorecords.com/2019.htm

Yazoo Records is a treasure trove of great old recordings of pre-war 
blues, ragtime, jug band and other genres.

There are two modern masters of the tongue-split warble that I know of, 
Joe Filisko and James Conway.

Joe and Eric Noden have a terrific new CD out called "I.C. Special." 
It's filled with great songs that feature some equally great guitar and 
harmonica playing.

http://www.rootsduo.com/

One song in particular, "Now She's Gone" features Joe at his warbling 
best. You can listen to it here:

http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/jfen

They also have a very nice live CD that features Joe's harmonica acrobatics.

James Conway displays some incredible musicianship featuring some 
amazing feats on the harmonica on his Youtube channel. The song, "Bay 
Rum Blues" features his mastery of that tongue-split warble prominently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v14v9FyQyL4&feature=channel

You really should check out some of the other delightful videos on 
James' channel while you are there. His take on Boots Randolph's "Yakety 
Sax" knocks me out.

Michelle



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 14:00:48 EDT
From: EGS1217@xxxxxxx
Subject: Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Tongue blocking and tone 
To: jdeall@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <b7143.436d4ba8.39b92950@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

hahahahaha....SO Not!   (but funny) <G>
 
Elizabeth
 
"Message: 13
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:13:53 +0000 (UTC)
From: Jerry  Deall <jdeall@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Tongue blocking and  tone
To: Philharpn@xxxxxxx
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx

In my case I'm  sure it's the hollow head......... 

Thanks Jerry,  
http://www.thebluesambassadors.com/  
http://www.myspace.com/bluesambasador 
_http://www.facebook.com/bluesambassadors#!/pages/The-Blues-Ambassadors/1893
84179665?ref=ts_ (http://www.facebook.com/b
luesambassadors#!/pages/The-Blues-Ambassadors/189384179665?ref=ts)  
 
Philharp'n: (snipped)
 
"Tone is one of those elusive qualities like comb materials. What produces  
the best tone? U-block, tongue block or pucker embouchure?  "


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 13:57:23 -0500
From: Deb Wind <debseifriedwind@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Tongue blocking and tone
To: Philharpn@xxxxxxx
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTimiYeajhv5cE81yddpgp-m0Fbd5TfTjnxBPE0ww@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Deb Wind <debseifriedwind@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
> So, the flat of the tongue is actually ON the comb? Or is the tip *and*
> flat of the tongue ON the comb? (albeit moved over to the side)
>

Never mind.  Dumb question.  Obviously it must come in contact with the
comb.

I'll go jump in a hole now and pull the hole in after me....

Deb


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 12:38:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Lee Oskar Reed Plates
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <314885.47316.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Oskars use a metric size, but I've found that the American thread 1-72 fits without stripping the original thread.

Length should be just slightly more than the combined thickness of comb and reedplates. The shaft of the Oskar reedplate screw appears to be just a tiny amount longer than 3/8 inch.

Winslow Yerxa
Author, Harmonica For Dummies ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5
Harmonica instructor, The Jazzschool for Music Study and Performance
Resident expert, bluesharmonica.com
Columnist, harmonicasessions.com

--- On Wed, 9/8/10, Dan Dial <jazz_cruisin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

From: Dan Dial <jazz_cruisin@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] Lee Oskar Reed Plates
To: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2010, 7:34 AM

> I took one of my jewelery screwdrivers, but found the screws were frozen 
> and
> if force was used, the heads would strip. What do others do in this case?

I've had similar problems with screws stripping out.

I hear that some others replace the screws with hex head bolt & nut solutions.  

I've looked on MicroMark to see if I can find bolt/nuts but I have no idea what 
diameter and length to use.

If those of you would share the hardware you use to replace screws, I would 
appreciate it.
    Diameter/Length (size) of bolt and nut?
    Supplier & their part number?
    Wrenches?
    
Thanks,
Dan


      



      

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:34:23 EDT
From: Philharpn@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Tongue blocking and tone
To: debseifriedwind@xxxxxxxxx, Philharpn@xxxxxxx
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <b1538.10e0082b.39b94d4f@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"

There are no dumb questions when it comes to harmonica.

Remember when everybody had his or her own idea about positions before the 
Circle of Fifths was discovered? Everybody agreed on the first three 
positions but this it turned into a muddle.

Perhaps a better term for   is corner blocking because the emphasis is on 
the corner of the mouth and the lips and the side of the tongue comes into 
play -- but is not the solitary player. The tip or front of the tongue comes 
into play in the octave shape where the mouth covers four or five holes and 
the tongue -- again in an imprecise manner -- covers the center two or three 
holes and the outer holes (usually, but not always, an octave) sounds.

Whatever you want to call it, Fred, Mac, Mike or Joe, just keep in mind 
that it really is not that difficult -- otherwise it would not be so 
widespread. The fact that some prefer the center lip blocking instead of the side lip 
blocking or corner blocking is a matter of personal choice.
Hope this helps.
Phil








In a message dated 9/8/10 2:57:28 PM, debseifriedwind@xxxxxxxxx writes:


> On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 11:39 AM, Deb Wind <debseifriedwind@xxxxxxxxx> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, the flat of the tongue is actually ON the comb? Or is the tip *and* 
> flat of the tongue ON the comb? (albeit moved over to the side)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never mind.  Dumb question.  Obviously it must come in contact with the 
> comb.
> 
> I'll go jump in a hole now and pull the hole in after me....
> 
> Deb
> 
> 
> 


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:43:47 -0400
From: joe leone <3n037@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] Re: SPAH convention
To: Tony Eyers <tony@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Harp L Harp L <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <C14B517C-496E-4020-878A-4EB9E7B1B01C@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


On Sep 8, 2010, at 6:47 PM, Tony Eyers wrote:

> smo-joe said
>
> "As I told Richard off list, someone? has to be coming up
> with the money to send these youngstars. Maybe sponsors?"
>
> For the Asia Pacific Harmonica Festival there is no sponsorship as  
> far as I'm aware, not even for the elite players.

Maybe some elite players have 'factory rep' support? At least some in  
the U.S. do. Not sure about elsewhere.

> All the contestants pay their own way to get there

Then it must not be as expensive as some other places. Maybe  
transportation is cheaper. But I would imagine that lodging in Hong  
Kong can be frighteningly expensive..even for a 'relatively' cheap  
place. OR there are facilities like hostels. etc. Maybe access to  
reasonable food.

> , they generally stay in cheap accommodation.

What qualifies as cheap? The venues look posh.

> The festival organisers work really hard to get government support,  
> however this is for the use of venues etc.

Maybe they use cultural centers for the fests?

> Again I'm not sure of the details, just glad that I don't have to  
> organise any of it. No-one seems to be in it for the money, they  
> just love the harmonica and the chance to win the competitions.

I never thought 'for profit' was an issue.
>
> The responsibility for Asia Pacific Harmonica festival organisation  
> passes between countries, the next one will be in Malaysia in 2012.  
> I know the Malaysian people, they'll do a great job.

Singapore can't be too cheap.
>
> Tony Eyers
> Australia
> www.HarmonicaAcademy.com
> ...everyone plays



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